Betsy Muse 0:13
If you’re leaving an industry you’re leaving an employer to go freelance, and you already have a huge list of potential customers you might not experience feast to famine, but for most of us who are starting, you know, from scratch, and trying to build a business like that. This, this, I think feast or famine is almost a natural part of your early business, you know, business, because there’s so much to learn, and so much to do. And you also need to earn money while you’re learning and doing.

Molly McBeath 0:59
Hello, and welcome to Yes But However, a podcast about marketing, business and real life. My name is Molly Macbeth. I’m here with Kathy Fealy and Betsy muse, and today we are here to talk about feast and, or famine in your business cycle. So, what are your guys’s experience being with feast or famine has been common for you. It’s been very common for me.

Betsy Muse 1:23
It was common in the past but I have hopped off the hamster wheel.

Molly McBeath 1:30
Nice. Yeah I’m Kathy.

Kathleen Fealy 1:33
Um, I have gone through both feast and famine. At the moment, I am probably more in the feast cycle, but in some cases I’m missing a little bit of the famine because the famine is when I actually got things organized and done for myself and for my own business so now I’m finding I really need the balance between feast and famine. The other thing is I have to be careful, it seems to me for some reason and I swear it is just the universe and how I just likes to make fun of you in life. But when I do hit feast. That’s also when all the other possible jobs that have been on hold forever, start to pop back up and people say are you available, which then the question becomes how booked you become.

Molly McBeath 2:22
Right.

Kathleen Fealy 2:25
Because I think sometimes if you’ve gone through, especially if you’ve gone through famine recently and then you start to feel feast, it’s hard for you to say no to additional work. And then I think you get into a pattern, or at least I get into a pattern where I’ve taken on too much and it becomes overwhelming and I don’t feel like I’m doing a good job. Although my clients all feel like I’m doing a good job but I don’t feel like I’m doing a good job, so. And I think part of it, I hate it. I also think the famine part, it’s really weird is one of my notes that I made for this session when I knew we were going to do it was set. I think for famine especially, you have to control your own mentality about it, because I think that most people who are entrepreneurs are very much like actors and if you’ve ever heard actors talk they always think that their last role will be their last role, that no one is ever going to offer them another job again. And I think that instead of us realizing that’s an opportunity to, as long as money’s not like you know you have, if you have a rent due, it’s going to be stressful, for sure, you know, but if you know that you can cover your rent, but it’s just a period of famine. You also have a chance to get yourself organized and perhaps do more authority building and be gentle and stuff like that that you want to get chance to do if you were in your feast section of life.

Betsy Muse 3:53
So, for me, I just hopped off that hamster wheel, I am not going to go from feast to famine feast to famine, and I think the key is, as y’all know I run programs that help people do this so, You know, it’s finding what you can do outside of regular client work and starting to diversify your offers that has been what’s helped me. Also understanding what my minimum revenue can be so that I can maintain at least maintain that level with the offers that I have. And then it’s filling the pipeline. I understand and agree with Kathy during previously during the famine sessions. That is a great time to step back and organize your business. But if you what’s worked for me is having everything now on an even keel, instead of feeling like I have to have the feast months to make up for the famine months, I can bring my revenue down to a sustainable level so that I still have that organizing time. I don’t need the feast months because I no longer have the famine months.

Molly McBeath 5:23
I agree that famine is something that I, I, hypothetically look forward to. Ironically, because it means that things are going to be slower. And I can breathe and I have time to think and I get. I’m not working nights and weekends and all that crazy stuff. But the fact is I can never enjoy it when it actually happens because then I feel. I like to be busy for one thing. That’s just my nature. And then, if it goes on too long, then it’s not fun anymore. It’s too stressful.

Kathleen Fealy 5:57
Yeah I think Betsy is on to it did that the goal is to just find a balance, and everything so that you’re not, you know, I think people believe that when you’re an entrepreneur you always have feast and famine, and so we sort of looked at it in a feast and famine mentality. But I do think that there is just, I mean, even when I was working corporate jobs there are always times when there’d be small downtime times not downturns with downtimes where, you know, the one project was finished, but the next project wasn’t quite ready to begin or you’re waiting for approvals or something, but people just looked at that as just, you know, oh we’re, You know slow for a couple of weeks, but they never thought of it in terms of feast and famine. So I think it’s more of an entrepreneurial mindset and that it has its pros and cons but I think that if you can. I think if we can get a more balanced, look at it, then I think it’s easier on our psyches because when it does happen. When especially if there are like downtimes because of something that’s like a client, all of a sudden, you know, has gone out of business or something has happened, that, you know, there’s been something in your own personal life that has caused you to have to turn down work. It’s better for you to be able to look at it it’s just part of the you know the routine of how the business runs, not that you may be in a cycle and you have to wait for it, you have to work your way out of it.

Betsy Muse 7:24
One of the things that I did, though, that is almost reminiscent of feast or famine is once I got the revenue generation and clients, and the other work that I do that generates revenue once I got that level. And I didn’t feel that time pressure. I started saying yes to too many other things. So then it felt like that overwhelmed my schedule that the feast. Months used to feel, you know, I didn’t have that time to review my business I didn’t have time to do the things that sustain my business, and I’m learning a really valuable lesson from that like right now, as we’re going, recording this, I’m having to look back over because I’ve said yes to too many things that aren’t necessarily revenue generating.

Kathleen Fealy 8:20
And I think also Betsy that made me think of something right now because. Okay, so let’s. We’ve talked about how our podcast is about life, as well as business. So feast and famine wise, I’m finding that while I’m busy or at work, my personal life, as far as exercise taking care of myself or, everything like that is truly in the famine stages of life. I’m not, I’m not taking care of myself the way I should, and I wonder if I wonder if you ever find that, you know, when you’re doing your feast and famine periods of your business or even if it’s just how you look at your business in general your slower times in your busier times, do you find the correlation that when your business is up, you’re taking care of yourself is down and vice versa.

Molly McBeath 9:18
I think Kathy’s nailed it. I mean that’s absolutely what happens for me. Yeah, feast for my business means famine for Molly

Betsy Muse 9:28
Yeah

Molly McBeath 9:28
doesn’t get to sleep Molly doesn’t get to exercise Molly doesn’t get to leave her desk. Molly is now chained.

Betsy Muse 9:35
And even when my business has been the past several weeks, things have been on a more even keel. I mean I’ve taken some Saturdays to do some gardening, but to even think that that, any type of work life balance is a joke. So I think you have nailed it and I don’t necessarily think that it’s just when you’re in feast mode in your business, I think, just as entrepreneurs, it’s something that we often ignore.

Molly McBeath 10:13
Which part of ignore,

Betsy Muse 10:15
taking care of ourselves.

Molly McBeath 10:17
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Betsy Muse 10:19
Yeah, I definitely think it’s exacerbated by that whole feast or famine cycle. Do you let me ask you, Kathy, when you feel like you know businesses down just a little bit. Do you take better care of yourself.

Kathleen Fealy 10:36
I actually do. Okay, I tend to go for at least afternoon walks or take more of a. I give myself. It’s odd, I give myself time to take the mental breaks that actually make me better at my job. When I’m at in a period of being really busy in my job. I’m amazed at unless I wake up in the middle of the night or I’m taking a shower or all of a sudden you know I haven’t been like, thinking about anything particularly, all of a sudden this idea comes to me and I’m like, oh my god that was the answer I’ve been looking for, but because you’re so busy that I just don’t seem to have the time sometimes, too. It’s really that old adage you can’t see the forest for the trees, because you just get too too busy. And what I’ve also discovered is as I’m getting busier. There’s sometimes things that are like, you know, it will get it will get sometimes difficult to get things done or people are asking for a lot of things and it’s just like I’m only one of me you know I can’t do anything more. And I’ve been discovering that I’ve been working really hard on reframing things and I’m not sure if I’m succeeding yet, but I am working very hard that when there’s still like a real challenge to something, I look at it as an opportunity to get better at something to approach it from a different direction or to talk to people in a different way about the project, and then I try to reframe the situation as if this is like, this has been even made me better the next time I run into the same situation. So it’s still a work in progress. But because we’ve talked so my clients work in progress. Some of them will like be like, Okay, can you do this for me and I’m just like, uh no. I say it nicer than that but it’s like, usually where I would go out of my way in the past, I just can’t go out of my way anymore, because there’s just no more bandwidth to give, and I basically explained to them that I’m in the middle of working on several projects and I can’t you know devote the time that’s needed for their projects, but they are so used to in the past because a lot of my clients are very long term clients that I just find the time to get stuff done. And lately there just hasn’t been that extra time to find which I’m very grateful for, that’s the other thing is I think when you both your feast and famine. If you’re going to be grateful for the feast, you have to also be grateful for the famine. And because otherwise, I just think it’s karmic, you know it’s karma thing just gonna come back at you if you don’t like, you know, if you don’t embrace the fact that you’ve been given the slower time to try to do things now again if you have people to pay your bills because otherwise it’s exceedingly stressful so I’m not saying that if you can’t pay your bills, just be grateful.

Molly McBeath 13:41
What’s the longest you’ve ever had a period of famine, because for me feast tends to be more the norm. Fortunately, but they’re certainly dry periods but have you. What’s the longest you’ve ever felt like things were just really, really slow and sort of a desperate way, how long something takes to feel desperate to a person is going to vary by individual.

Kathleen Fealy 14:09
For me, I would say, I had clients during this time, but they were very very small projects, like, very small. And I would say probably the longest lasted was seven months but there was probably partly due to my getting feeling like sorry for myself in ways and there was a lot going on in my personal life at that point, was a little bit of a peaceful here and there. And so it was easy to blame all of the other things that was happening, I did not focus on how could I reach out to clients have I even like reached out to anyone recently by just picking up a telephone and talking to them and seeing how were they doing you know just wanting to check in type conversations, and I’m very good at calling past clients, and just checking on them without sounding like I’m trying to find more work. And there’s nothing wrong with asking for more work but I’m very good at doing that on just a general basis and I stopped even just making those general calls. So I think part of it was my fault that I had the seven months.

Molly McBeath 15:19
I had something like five months, and I pretty sure it was 2012 and I literally was considering it was such a dry spell. I was considering giving up. I don’t know that I would have given up freelancing but or running my business but I was going to change. Almost everything to say like, I’m just not going to do this anymore. This is not worth it and I can’t find any clients that I want to work for and things are just not working out there’s not enough to keep me in this. I was just about to give up when I think I got three good clients all in the same month, August 2012, many of whom I still work for.

Kathleen Fealy 15:58
Did you do something at that point, if

Molly McBeath 16:02
that’s the way things are getting. I can’t claim that I have been that I had been marketing myself well, because I wasn’t back then. No, they found me was just luck.

Betsy Muse 16:16
For those listening there, you know, most everyone I know wants off the feast or famine hamster wheel, they want more stability, and they want to feel like they’re more in control. But I, I also know people, as we’ve been talking, who stay feast or famine, intentionally, they want to have super busy months and then they want to be able to take time off, or not even time off, but they want to be able to take like a mini sabbatical kind of put you know all the time into developing ideas and projects. So, it’s, I don’t want to imply that feast or famine is always bad. I think what’s important is feeling like you have a little bit of control over the process, and understanding what it takes to market yourself and your business and what it takes to keep the pipeline, the Lead Pipeline full. So, for those who are like, Oh, but I like feast or famine, that’s fine, just understand what it takes to maybe control that so that you are doing it intentionally, and you’re still structuring your business so that it’s sustainable. Because I think what I’ve done is whether I was in feast or whether I was in famine if I was in famine. I was worried the dam death it would never end. And if I was in feast. I was working myself to death. So neither situation was ever really a good thing, because I wasn’t in control of it.

Molly McBeath 17:54
So I’ve you have either view. I don’t know if you do it now or in the past, did this, had an amount of savings that you had banked for famine, so that you know the clients that you that you didn’t want to have to handle. I know that’s a pretty common way for.

Betsy Muse 18:14
Yeah, I do now

Molly McBeath 18:16
nursing such. Yeah, up to it.

Betsy Muse 18:19
Yeah, I wouldn’t be able to say no for long. I can say no, maybe once or twice. Yeah. And I think that’s a really good idea though.

Molly McBeath 18:31
It is a really good idea, although I find it’s, It’s, it’s tricky if you have recurring clients or ongoing clients, because you can only say no to an ongoing client so many times before they’re going to find someone else. When that that applies to both feast and famine, probably if you’re saying no to, to, a former client during famine, you don’t want to work for them anymore for whatever reason, but same problem I can you know you can be faced and say no no client and then drop yourself into famine because you said no to that client and because you were busy, you literally couldn’t do the work at that time and they said well this person can’t help us anymore. We got to find somebody else, and then you right. You lost more than you bargained for, which is often why I ended up taking more work than I should.

Betsy Muse 19:21
Have either of you hired others to help handle that workload when you were in feast mode and you didn’t want to say no to a client because you didn’t want to risk losing them. Yes. Have you hired subcontractors.

Molly McBeath 19:39
Absolutely,

Kathleen Fealy 19:39
yes. Do not always go well.

Betsy Muse 19:45
That adds more work to your plate

Kathleen Fealy 19:46
It actually added quite a bit more work to my plate in a horrible situation I had vetted them I had done all of the, you know, checking their references, everything so I thought I had been set and it did not go well, so I will say I come skittish. A lot of times when I hire outside contractors now, because I want to make sure I have the extra time to fix things if I have to. So it sort of defeats the purpose but at the same time, I know to grow a business you have to learn to let go and trust people and all of that so I’m still in my learning phase people,

Molly McBeath 20:20
mostly it’s worked out well. But I’ve only ever hired subcontractors to do very specific roles for clients that I knew well, so I knew exactly what the project was going to be. And I only had one person where it really didn’t work out, and, and that was too bad because this person is talented. It was just a situation of throwing someone in when we just didn’t have enough time to bring her up to speed, because we were moving so fast. And yeah, where you get into the, it’s more work to bring somebody new in than it’s worth.

Kathleen Fealy 21:04
I think that’s true also during your feast period. If you decide, oh, I’m going to hire an a VA to help me with this. There’s a lot of time that it takes for the VA to get onboard and whether you mean for it to take time or not you can be the most organized person in the world and they can be the most organized person, but they’re still, you know, given take a little bit of learning curve that’s involved. And I think that’s also the problem you hire outside contractors, I’m now working with some outside contractors, but I now basically give them time to learn the system, and learn what’s going to come up because just throwing people in right away as much as I think, you know, I know that they’re talented people, it’s, it’s sometimes it’s overwhelming for them I guess. So, this has been my experience, Betsy.

Betsy Muse 21:57
Um, you know I don’t have with VA days and hiring others, I have hired for specific jobs not for ongoing work. And I think for me, managing someone else’s workload is just too stressful, making sure that I have enough work to keep someone going on an ongoing basis, and work that I want to turn over to someone else has been really difficult for me, but I have hired for very specific purposes and data entry, some cleaning up transcripts, things like that, things that I have to do but getting that work off my plate can save me, hours. So I, that I think it’s knowing what you know we’re in very different situations Kathy because you work for companies where you need to hire for for jobs that you can’t Well you might be able to do them but, but, and the work is directly being done for the client. And so that’s I, that would just be another level of stress for me, the people I would be hiring would be doing work to take work off my plate, which I think is a little less stressful, because if they don’t do it right it’s not necessarily damaging the clients, you know your relationship with a client, so I feel like that’s a little less stressful right now but yeah.

Molly McBeath 23:29
So what are your strategies for when you’re coping with feast. Let’s start there.

Betsy Muse 23:37
For me, because right now I’m not having to. And so trying to think back to when I did, I don’t think I coped. I think I overworked myself and got burned out, which is why I needed to jump off the wheel.

Molly McBeath 23:53
When my strategies, is it becomes takeout week.

Betsy Muse 24:00
I mean really good strategy, Molly.

Molly McBeath 24:03
Yeah, we have, I start to think what can I shed. What can I get rid of that, so that I can not lose my energy and I can just take away anything that I can just lighten lighten wherever lighten the load wherever I am. And so yes, I’ve hired cleaning services during feast, because I didn’t have time to clean my house and it was driving me nuts but I couldn’t deal with it. So, and yard services and yeah it tends to be that I’ll hire up more on the personal level, then I will on the professional level. Because I don’t have that much stuff where I could hire somebody out on short notice. So, that doesn’t really work for me but it has worked well to hire somebody to do some of the personal stuff,

Kathleen Fealy 24:57
like the takeout I do one thing that I learned this past year is just to be able to say to someone, sometimes we have to slow down because things are getting. If things get out of control. You can’t, you know, it’s like trying to put a brake on a car going down a mountainside, you know like has those emergency off ramps for like the trucks, and you know if you’ve ever looked at them as you go by, you’re like, I don’t ever want to have to try to hit one of those things aren’t a good drop, so it’s much better to slow down before you get the app. And that was your breaks.

Betsy Muse 25:33
I think it’s important to the distinguish between feast, and being busy because feast is when you know all the paying work is coming in. It isn’t necessarily just being busy, because sometimes we take work that keeps us super busy but it doesn’t pay all that well. And so, it isn’t feast mode, because you’re not making that much, but it’s blocking you from getting into feast mode, because it’s taking up all your time. So, sometimes we convince ourselves that we’re busy when or that we’re earning more that we’re doing well, because we’re busy, and we’re busy with client work. But if it isn’t paying us commensurate with the time and the talent that we’re putting into it. That’s not feast mode.

Kathleen Fealy 26:26
Well then my physical health right now is going to pure famine mode. It’s not making any money and it’s not going well. There is no more time. So, yeah. So do you guys have any eyes so because I am struggling with trying to find the time to take care of myself during my, my, busier times in my business right now. What do you guys do to balance, you’re taking care of yourself. Besides takeout and you know things like that but is there Do you Have you found any strategies that work for you or are you all struggling with it because it’s just seems to be the nature of the beast.

Betsy Muse 27:08
I still struggle with it but I will say the past of the past, say four to five weeks I forced myself to take a Saturday off at least three Saturdays, I have spent Gardening. One was my birthday, definitely done work that day, but I have had specific projects in the yard. Granted, we do have, you know, acreage so there are lots and lots of projects to do. And that’s helped to have something to focus on to force myself, but I do have a very hard time. I love what I do. And I love the lure of finding something new or examining my thoughts about something to see if they take me anywhere. It’s just fun, it’s solving puzzles and solving problems and so I love what I do but doesn’t mean that I need to do it seven days a week, you know, 12, to 14 hours a day,

Kathleen Fealy 28:10
and both have dogs to those so you both go walking your dog.

Betsy Muse 28:13
Yes. And you’re exactly right. I do long walks with Buddy, and have started doing that in the morning, much longer walk we go out a little before six. So that he can terrorize the deer and the rabbits and wake up all the neighbors. Yeah, we are now alarm.

Kathleen Fealy 28:35
That’s gonna say what a nice neighbor you are.

Betsy Muse 28:38
I am they all love me for it.

Molly McBeath 28:40
That’s so thoughtful. Yeah doesn’t want a barking dog at 6am. One of my major strategies besides the hiring out whatever personal stuff I can is. I’ve talked about it before that I, I follow the basic tenets of getting things done in an constant list making and every time something occurs to me. Then I have special a certain list that I just pull up really fast and I type it in and then I go back to what I was doing. And I think that for me that really helps, because when I mean feast then of course I’m thinking about these things that I want to do that I don’t have time to do. So then I jot them down and then when I get to famine, it’s like, oh, but what was I going to do, was my time tonight I have a thought. I thought I had a thought, you know, and I can never remember what it is and so the lists have been really helpful, and to take the edges off of both sets of problems,

Kathleen Fealy 29:50
what’s the, what’s the middle point of feast and famine, just content I think it’s just content. Well,

Molly McBeath 29:58
it’s saciated.

Betsy Muse 30:01
I think though that each of our, it’s gonna look different for each of us. So for me, it is having the pipeline full, but with qualified clients you know I figured out who I want to work with. But it takes a while to get there when you’re new in the business, it just takes a while to get there, you need to work for a lot of different people. Now granted, I’m a copywriter, so it might be different in different types of businesses, but I needed to work in a lot for a lot of different people in a lot of different businesses to figure out what I wanted to do, who I wanted to work with. So, you know, understanding that it might take you a while to get to this point. Don’t you know, don’t necessarily try to rush it, but do take care of yourself. If you’re doing this because feast or famine can be super super stressful. In good times and bad, it’s just a different type of stress, but for me. Yeah, it’s stressful, no matter where you are. And, and so it’s finding that, what that level playing field looked like was the challenge, because who knew, you know, I didn’t have that many examples set for me to see what it looked like and everyone’s business looks different. No matter what you do, everyone’s business looks different. And so, I kept you know I would hear about jumping off the feast to famine hamster wheel, but no one ever said how. And people would talk about well, when you find clients with that pay a high enough fee you know when you’re able to earn high enough fees per client. Well, that didn’t really do it either. You know, it does it still doesn’t tell you how to stop that cycle. Just because I make more money all of a sudden the cycle ends, no, that didn’t, that didn’t do right doesn’t

Molly McBeath 32:01
end the cycle, unless you’re willing to just, you know, cold heartedly just cut off good clients.

Betsy Muse 32:07
Yeah, so it’s, it’s, you have to figure out what that looks like for you. And then it takes a transition time to get there. You know, first you have to have the good paying clients. Yes, you have to have the authority Kathy you hit on that earlier building authority, so that you know you have the business coming to you and you’re marketing yourself and, and you have the business coming to you. And, and so for me, what it looked like was finding the right types of clients, and doing the right type of work and charging the right amount of money, but I’ve already admitted that I then failed by over committing in other areas. So now I have to figure that part out, but I will. so, but I do think I I just first it takes time. And so I think, early in your career, unless you’re super like if, if you’re leaving an industry you’re leaving an employer to go freelance, and you already have a huge list of potential customers you might not experience feast or famine, but for most of us who are starting, you know, from scratch, and trying to build a business like that. This, this, I think feast or famine is almost a natural part of your early business, you know, business, because there’s so much to learn, and so much to do. And you also need to earn money while you’re learning and doing so don’t panic if you find yourself in there. Look for coping mechanisms so that you can can manage the stress level, when you’ve got too much work, and the stress level when you don’t have enough and find support groups and accountability groups we’ve mentioned before in previous podcast that we all met in an accountability group. And we’ve talked about how much that meant to our businesses. And so we know we turn to each other. Now, regardless of what’s going on. I know I have my backup. You know, and so, you know, find your crew find the people who really will support you. And that’s also something easier said than done, but if you make an intentional effort you’ll, you’ll get there. Leave your leave a crew that isn’t serving you know if you find you’re in with this folks who do more talking than doing who who really aren’t building a business but they’re talking about building a business, be willing to walk away, because you need to be around people who are taking action, who are taking positive action. But I don’t be. I know we, we talked about it as if it’s this horrible thing, but it’s only horrible if you know feast or famine is only horrible if you get caught up in it and can’t control the, the stress and the emotions that go with it. I think it’s almost hate to call something a rite of passage but it’s almost a natural state for an early business.

Molly McBeath 35:32
Yeah I agree I don’t like it. I want people to not beat themselves up over it because there is this impression that if you’re going feast or famine, even failed somehow in how you’re running your business, and that’s not true at all. It is as natural as Murphy’s Law. You know, you’re going to get work when you can least take it, and you’re not going to get into work when you most need it. That is part of life. And so yeah you have to just learn to say no, I didn’t do anything wrong. That doesn’t mean there aren’t things that I can optimize, and I do, I need to manage my emotions about it and just keep going.

Kathleen Fealy 36:15
And I do think also there’s, I think in some cases, I have been in groups where you know that some people are experiencing famine, and because, you know, they’ve changed careers or whatever. But what’s interesting is that they, I heard them tentatively say something like well maybe I should get a part time job and everybody’s like no no no you don’t need to do that. There’s nothing wrong with getting part time work or temp work, or even a full time job and starting out as a side hustle your own business, you need to do what’s right for you, because everybody, No matter how well and this might experience. I may have tried to do everything the right way but sometimes things happen in life, that just throw your business and your life on different courses. And in order to stay on your feet, you do need to sometimes find that extra income, so I don’t think there’s, you know, so when you are in famine, don’t be scared to like go to get a temp job for a while or something that’s not a bad thing. It doesn’t mean that you’re giving up on your dreams or your career, it just means that you’ve found a way to help, you know, pay your rent, provide some additional funding for your business. No,

Betsy Muse 37:35
I agree, I agree. Yep. Now this has been an amazing conversation. I hope others agree. I think it was, and I appreciate both of you.

This has been Yes But However, I’m Molly Macbeth, with my co hosts Betsy Muse, and Kathy Fealy. This episode was written, edited and produced by the three of us, our theme music is Tourist in Punta Cana, which is available through audio hero. The show’s website where we post show notes transcripts and more information about us, can be found at yes but however podcast dot com. You can contact us to the website or email us at talkers at yes but however podcast.com Thanks for listening.

I can’t believe we did that in one take. And I don’t think there are any edits in that at all.

Kathleen Fealy 38:27
There is a one large pause,

Molly McBeath 38:30
that was because my phone was ringing

sorry. Now it’s time for the disclaimer. The information opinions and recommendations presented in yes but however for general information only. Any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. No part of this podcast should be considered professional advice. Thanks and have a great day.